Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205
03/06/2006 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB274 | |
| SB297 | |
| HB167 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| = | SB 274 | ||
| = | SB 297 | ||
| = | HB 167 | ||
SB 274-STATE FIREARM DISPOSAL AND INVENTORY
SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT announced SB 274 to be up for
consideration. He asked for a motion to adopt the Version I
committee substitute (CS).
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER moved Version I as the working document
and there was no objection.
SENATOR FRED DYSON, Sponsor of SB 274, explained that he would
like to make sure that the Department of Public Safety (DPS)
continues to get the highest value possible for surplus firearms
while expanding the pool of potential buyers to include all
Alaskans who are legally qualified to purchase firearms. Under
the current system DPS surplus firearms are sold at auctions
that are open only to federally licensed firearm dealers.
With regard to the issue of liability, he reported that research
and legal opinions indicate that DPS would incur no more
liability in selling a used firearm than any other piece of used
equipment. His intention is for DPS to realize that it doesn't
have to continue jumping through hoops to keep from exposing the
state to increased liability.
9:14:53 AM
DAN SPENCER, Director of Administrative Services for the
Department of Public Safety, stated that DPS is reluctant to
give up the ability to trade in surplus weapons to acquire new
ones. He related that on a number of occasions the department
has reached agreement with firearms manufacturers to completely
change over all trooper service weapons. In an exchange in 2002
DPS got about 436 Glock 40-caliber firearms with holsters, extra
magazines and magazine pouches at no cost to the state. That
came about because all duty weapons and all confiscated and
unclaimed firearms were traded in at a value of about $227,000.
If the department had been compelled to forfeit that opportunity
a capital appropriation would have been necessary. He stated
that the department is happy to work with Senator Dyson to
ensure that it doesn't lose the ability to trade in service
firearms.
MR. SPENCER brought up the issue of disposing of other firearms
in the department's possession. Currently DPS has about 500 but
disposal of those will involve the Department of Administration
(DOA) because that department is statutorily charged with
disposal of surplus state property. What DPS has done with
previous trade ins is to get written approval to waive the
normal sale process from the chief procurement officer for DOA.
The liability issue is a concern for DPS and DOA, but Senator
Dyson has indicated that isn't a problem.
Noting that Version I speaks to donating firearms to a museum or
dismantling firearms to sell as legal parts, he said DPS would
be inclined to have DOA work with a gunsmith to accomplish that
work. DPS isn't in the business of parting out unfamiliar
weapons and the decision about whether a particular firearm part
is safe or unsafe is beyond its expertise.
A final concern relates to ammunition disposal. What happens now
is that it's given to the academy so disposal decisions are made
there. He reasoned that because it's difficult to tell whether
casings are safe or not, it would make sense to have further
discussions about the ammunition issue.
9:20:33 AM
SENATOR DYSON asked what sorts of illegal weapons show up in DPS
inventory because he's only aware of cannons and those with
defaced serial numbers.
MR. SPENCER replied a common modification is from semi automatic
to fully automatic. Another is a commando style modification,
which includes a folding stock to make the firearm more
concealable.
SENATOR DYSON pointed out that both are fully legal for
qualified citizens to own.
MR. SPENCER responded even if the bill were amended so that DPS
could trade in service weapons, there would still be the issue
of cost because department service weapons are well maintained
and have good value.
SENATOR DYSON said he hadn't thought about the fact that DOA
would probably end up doing the disposal. That would entail some
work and more than likely the cost of hiring a gunsmith. He
asked about whether there should be a signed disclaimer to make
it clear that the state assumes no responsibility.
He mentioned he had an amendment to institute rigorous inventory
and reporting requirements. Although he has full confidence in
the current commissioner's integrity he said he worries about a
future administration that might decide to destroy legal and
valuable weapons as a matter of public policy.
MR. SPENCER said he couldn't comment on what a future
administration might do but DPS would prefer not to publish an
inventory of its weapons until there is a sale.
9:26:13 AM
SENATOR KIM ELTON asked Mr. Spencer to comment on the
advisability of further defining museum.
MR. SPENCER conceded it's a valid point and that DOA should
weigh in on that subject. Certainly the department wouldn't be
interested in donating machine guns to a roadside museum so
further discussion is warranted.
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked if the department would get more value
from the trade in process than from a direct sale.
MR. SPENCER replied that's a tough question because it entails
assigning a value to the seized or recovered weapons inventory.
Generally, the department gets very good value from the
manufacturers when trading in service weapons, but he couldn't
speculate what they would get for the other firearms if they
went to auction.
He mentioned the Department of Administration fiscal note that
includes the cost of a gunsmith but didn't include trading in
surplus weapons.
SENATOR DYSON asked if the DPS budget has a line item for the
value gained from the sale of the surplus property.
MR. SPENCER said no.
SENATOR DYSON suggested that might be part of the solution.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked how many sidearm weapons the department
has.
MR. SPENCER replied about 500 service weapons of one type or
another.
SENATOR HUGGINS opined that the good will factor of recycling
service weapons to the public is beyond the dollar value that
might be attached to any particular weapon.
MR. SPENCER responded the department doesn't regularly dispose
of firearms because it isn't in the business of selling guns.
Having the ability to leverage trades has worked well and that's
what has been done. The question of whether the department
should sell guns at public auctions is the Legislature's
purview. Certainly, he said, the department understands the
issue of good will.
SENATOR HUGGINS mentioned that headlines were made during a
previous administration when firearms were cut up. That has
caused some people to be skeptical about what happens to
department service weapons when they are no longer used in the
line of duty, because the only thing they know is that they are
never seen again.
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked Senator Huggins if he thinks the good
will component would mandate that firearms be sold to the public
even though the department would get less than it could have
gotten if it made a trade-in deal with a manufacturer.
SENATOR HUGGINS replied that's exactly what he was saying. It
could be a good investment and he would assume that the
disparity wouldn't be that great.
9:39:27 AM
SENATOR ELTON referenced page 1 line 9 and suggested deleting
the word "department" because it isn't clear whether the
reference is to DPS or to DOA. The firearms belong to DPS, but
DOA actually disposes of the firearms as surplus property.
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced he would hold SB 274 in committee.
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